Curse

Savio · Aug 28, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

If you need even one single Radiant insignia on your character in high-level PvE - it is better to switch that insignia for a Survivor or an armor-booster, and add the +5e on the sword instead of the 15^50.

No, I understood you perfectly, you misunderstood me.

What good high-level PvE physical build needs a radiant insignia?

Ate of DK · Aug 28, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I never use builds that can't keep up with the mana regeneration in standard situations. It's not good in PvP, thus I won't do any different in PvE.

I never use +5 energy weapons unless there is a special situation. For example: an assassin with much DP that can't do his combo without the +5 energy weapon.

Because not many people play like this, especialy not in PvE (I guess). It's hard to find a buyer for a non-caster +5 energy weapon.

Master Ketsu · Aug 28, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

why not have both the 15^50 and 15^E so you can swap based on your build ?

I have my sets hotkeyed to e,r,t,q

DarkFlame · Aug 28, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Care

I had many perfect req 9 zealous bows with +5 energy farming the UW but was impossible to sell them.

If you've had that many, then think about how many others have had. I think thats the simplest explanation without getting into whether or not a +5en bow is right for everyone, that the market is simply flooded. Back when the HoD sword was around, +5en would have made big waves, but its been a long time since.

And I have to say, your example makes no sense. What would a PvP sin who can instant create weapons have to do with a selling a bow in PvE?

Robbert Monga · Aug 28, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

Because energy usage is determined not by max energy, but by natural regen + energy management skills. Using a +5e weapon will only get you +5e in any one combat, ie. one attack skill.

God bless you.

12345

Kanyatta · Aug 28, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Casters don't use bow. They use 1 handed weapon and a shield or a focus in the other hand.

This. If you're running low on energy and you're NOT a caster, you're playing the game wrong.

Also, Zealous is terrible on a bow.

Marverick · Aug 28, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

There's no point of 15^50 daggers, the dmg increase is near to inexistent...

More damage is more damage, no matter how small...

There's no point to having extra energy when you don't need it.

Lady Lozza · Aug 28, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

More damage is more damage, no matter how small...

There's no point to having extra energy when you don't need it.

A cripple shot ranger, a bha ranger, their primary function is not to deal damage, and an extra bha, or cripple very well might make a difference.

Yes energy management is better than maximum energy. However certain builds do not require extra damage, because if a team can't take something down quickly without a bha ranger having +15^50 on their bow, then I would suggest there is something wrong with the team, not the player. An extra bha/dshot/epidemic at the start of the fight may well payoff, certainly more so than the 15^50.

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

A cripple shot ranger, a bha ranger, their primary function is not to deal damage, and an extra bha, or cripple very well might make a difference.

Yes energy management is better than maximum energy. However certain builds do not require extra damage, because if a team can't take something down quickly without a bha ranger having +15^50 on their bow, then I would suggest there is something wrong with the team, not the player. An extra bha/dshot/epidemic at the start of the fight may well payoff, certainly more so than the 15^50.

And extra damage is still extra damage. Honestly, I've found the situations where I need the extra energy to be extremely rare on a Ranger in particular, and extra damage always adds up.

vaxmor · Aug 28, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

This. If you're running low on energy and you're NOT a caster, you're playing the game wrong.

Also, Zealous is terrible on a bow.

I dont understand why for example a ranger would want to maintain a huge pool of mana during the fight, surely it would be better to convert mana --->DPS :which by definition would preclude maintaining very high mana reserves?

I dont understand why zealous + barrage, or zealous + volley, or zealous + IAS is always terrible choice?

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaxmor

I dont understand why zealous + barrage, or zealous + volley, or zealous + IAS is always terrible choice?

Because there are better mods and we already have Expertise.

Lady Lozza · Aug 28, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Tyla, once again I have to disagree.
If you are playing a barrage ranger. Oh yes, it should be 15^50 and customised. If you are playing a class and build that attacks things constantly, it does add up to significant damage. But if your purpose is to wait around then unleash a chain, or wait around and be a pain in the rear for casters, or run around spirit spamming, the 15^50 is not going to do a lot. The +5 may make the difference between when you can cast epidemic, or when you can lay your next spirit.

The +5 energy mod is only for niche builds, like many of the other martial weapons inscriptions. But it isn't useless.

If you want to paint with a broad brush, yes everyone should probably go 15^50. And I know that GW players love to be lazy in this area, you see it all the time - "oh x build won't do this, y build won't do that, I want a build that with pwn everywhere".

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

The +5 may make the difference between when you can cast epidemic, or when you can lay your next spirit.

You have 4 weapon slots, weaponswap.

Quote:

The +5 energy mod is only for niche builds, like many of the other martial weapons inscriptions. But it isn't useless.

Wait, I said that +5E was bad on a Ranger where?

I've already stated that I bring a +5E bow on switch for those times when I do get spam-happy and need extra energy for that period of time.

Lady Lozza · Aug 28, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I fear we are talking cross purpose.

Yes I agree with weapon swapping, however I also don't carry around 2 copies of the same bow with a different inscription.

When I play BHA (depending on what build I bring) I almost always stick to dazed +5 +30. I don't have another bow of similar stats because to carry around too many bows in pve takes up too much storage, and BHA is not a build that is needed everywhere.

I have 3 bows for barrage, and mostly depend on my mood and the area involved. I only have 3 bows for barrage because I play it fairly often.

Back in the old days of spirit spam (original type) in halls, I used the +5 was to help with oath shot after spamming spirits using a staff.

You never said it was bad, but you rarely saw the use for it. And I agree with you in regards to that statement but only to an extent. In terms of generalisations, if you want a bow - or any other martial weapon - that will go the miles for all the builds you are likely to use, or the build you are most likely to use, I'd say sundering/zealous, +30, 15^50

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

With BHA: You should just swap to it for firing off a BHA, the same way you would with a bow built for Cripshot or Pin Down.

With Barrage: You want maximum DPS. A Vampiric Recurve Bow of Fortitude with 15^50 should suffice, since you can't run RtW. Either that of have a Flatbow / Longbow with the same mods with the recurve on switch if you're using FW.

I'm not sure about Spirit Spam, but I can only agree there as you wouldn't be running Marksmanship, and the extra damage would be 0.

As for martial weapons, in terms of a general weapon if there were no swaps, a Vampiric one, or Poisonous if you're running Apply Poison would be the best. Sundering is a terrible mod outside of spiking and zealous is only needed during energy problems. If I'm Ranger, I'll camp Poisonous mostly. If I'm any other martial, I'll camp Vamp mostly. Well, except for a Dervish when the sundercrits are stupidity on crack.

Lady Lozza · Aug 28, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

With barrage I run:
sundering longbow of fort 15^50
vamp recurce of fort 15^50
zealous shortbow of fort 15^50

To be honest I can't remember where need for the shortbow came from, but it does make a decent bow for barrage.

I'm not fond of vamp outside of barrage, mainly because as a monk I've seen too many players not switch out of the weapon while not fighting, or when it isn't doing any good - ie aegis.

Anyhow, to answer the original question posed:
IMHO +5 energy is a inscription for niche builds.
As others have put, there is no reason not to weapon swap when necessary, but if you want something that will go with most of the builds off PvX Wiki go with 15^50.

shoogi · Aug 28, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Have you pvers ever considered the option of weapon swapping?

cataphract · Aug 28, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Have you pvers ever considered the option of weapon swapping?

Not exactly, no. My main is monk and she's running around with a +5 energy, 20% enchantments Tengu Sword and a divine req Pronged Fan with 10% HSR, +30 health. I've found it painfully easy to play without any weapons/offhands whatsoever, so weapon swapping means only that I lose inventory space.

My second favourite char is ele, and she's wielding a Long Sword and a Golden Chalice both with same stats. It's not like there's anything too difficult in PvE and they *do* look a lot better with those items equipped.

Mad King Corn · Aug 28, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

It really depends on the person, but I love the +5 on my rangers bow, and I use that mod on alot of different weapons. 5 extra energy comes in very handy in certain builds.

cthulhu reborn · Aug 28, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

This is a three year old game that has changed relatively little during that time. Anything good has been long figured out, so thinking 'outside the box' almost always means you are doing something stupid.

I disagree completely. Even though I am sure every skill has been used in some builds at some point, I still see that most people use the same builds that are the flavour of the month. I tend to use different builds. Doesn't mean nobody ever came up with it but the truth is that mostly you see the same builds all over the place. They may generally be effective but by using simple changes I do things that suddenly screw a lot of peopl in pvp up and/or can have useful effects in pve. Why? Because most people use the same builds and are predictable. There are hundreds and hundreds of skill with many possibilities and a lot are crap.
Now there have actually been quite a few skill changes after the first year so your idea that very little has changed is something I don't agree with either.
All in all, it still happens a lot that I can make effective builds that people don't get and thus kick me from a pug. Then I go in with henchies and heroes and do the sam quest in half the time they do. And yes I've actually waited to see how long it took em to get out the quest or mission.
I'm sure that more seasoned players have more insight in skills and thus will get builds that deviate from the common builds but those people tend to be few and far between in general.